Public Meeting Regarding Acquisition of Lansing, NY Bell Station Property by NYS Department of Environmental Conservation (DEC) January 24, 2014, 3 PM Lansing Town Hall The room was filled to capacity, standing room only, with many Lansing residents. Officials present, with name abbreviations used throughout notes: At table facing audience: JF = Jay Franklin, Tompkins County Assessor AZ = Andrew Zepp, Executive Director, Finger Lakes Land Trust (FLLT) KL = Ken Lynch, Director, Region 8, NYS Department of Environmental Conservation (DEC) MS = Mike Sigler, Lansing Representative, Tompkins County Legislature EL = Ed LaVigne, Lansing Town Councilperson Ruth Hopkins, Lansing Town Councilperson, was seated in the audience. BS = Bell Station Q = Question from audience Notes taken by hand, by Donna Scott, 535 Lansing Station Road, Lansing, member, Friends of Bell Station Forest MS opened the meeting and introduced the gentlemen at the front table. AZ explained the history and background of how FLLT became interested in the Bell Station Land and began involving the NYS DEC. He gave facts about the parcel, saying that the 3/5 mile Cayuga Lake shoreline is the longest such undeveloped lake shore in private ownership in the entire Finger Lakes. KL explained the NYS Open Space Plan and said explanation for same was at the NYS DEC website http://www.dec.ny.gov/lands/47990.html KL said if the Bell Station (BS) land became a State Forest it would be managed for forestation. If it became a Wildlife Management Area, it would be managed for wildlife. The Unit Management Plan, to be done later in the process, would be done with public input and would determine what recreational uses would be allowed. In both cases, general uses allowed would include hiking, bird watching, hunting, fishing, trapping; sometimes horseback riding and snowmobiling are allowed. They are considering bicycle trails. The Unit Management Plan establishes these uses after the DEC acquires the land. (KL) Regarding the tax revenue, the big difference between a State Forest and a Wildlife Management Area is that a State Forest pays tax to the municipality, and a Wildlife Management Area, typically pays no tax to the municipality. However, with the latter there could be a special arrangement for tax payment, since the Lansing Town resolution requires tax be paid to the town and schools. 1
(KL) The State of NY doesn t have exactly a PILOT (Payment In Lieu Of Taxes), but has a special designation for taxes. The tax from a Wildlife Management Area would probably require legislation. The State Forest needs 500 acres of contiguous land; Bell Station has 490-495 acres; need a survey to determine exact acreage. Can possibly acquire the additional ~10 acres nearby. JF noted that a State Forest pays local taxes (school, town, fire), but not county taxes. Currently valued at about $4000 / acre (more than other local State Forests assessment). However, the Agriculture exemption, which owner NYSEG never applied for, would lower the value from $1.9 million to about $1 million. MS asked if there were questions from the public. Questions (Q): Q: What about beach use? KL: Unit management plan would look at beach use. DEC doesn t manage for swimming, no life guards, etc., but does want waterfront access for other uses. Q: What about [motor]boats anchoring there, as they do at present? KL: They probably would put in a public boat launch depending on the terrain approaching the water. Favor handicapped access for fishing. Q: Will any person be there monitoring activity? KL: Not there all the time; no rangers there all the time, but they would focus [a person there] during times of heavy use, when it is warm outside. Q: Farm land does it have to be re-forested? KL: no. Q: what about overnight camping in tents? KL: Yes, a possibility. Q: Is it possible to have local citizens, such as the Friends of Bell Station Forest, help with maintenance of the site? KL: We d encourage that! They have a program [for volunteers]. AZ: Volunteers help maintain Finger Lakes Land Trust holdings. Q, Dan Veaner, Lansing Star online: Why not a State Park? KL: This is designated as a DEC property; [DEC is] not in the State Parks system. AZ: My impression was that the NYS Parks system didn t want it. Q: What factors go into a State Forest vs. a Wildlife Management Area? KL: A State Forest is managed for forestry. But this property was in the past more a Wildlife Management Area [ie., for hunting]. DEC might prefer a Wildlife Management Area, but it needs to have wildlife habitat. This forest fits both designations, so there is some luxury with regard to designation. Q/comment: If it was a State Park, it would be nice to have it as a boating destination, to make a more interesting set of places to go on the lake. [See comment about State Park aspect above]. 2
Q: Regarding the tax issue and the Agricultural Exemption. JF: If the state took over, the State wouldn t do an Ag Exemption, as such. But they may allow agricultural use to occur. Q: If a Wildlife Management Area, what are the uses there? KL: Primarily used for wildlife, but other uses [recreational] OK, with wildlife considerations. Q: Is the farmed land precedent new? AZ/KL: No. Howland Island [North of Montezuma Wildlife Refuge] is a DEC property that is farmed now. This [Bell Station farm land] would not be an exception. Q: regarding the Unit Management Plan process. KL: Open to the public for input. A DRAFT is written and put out for comments, then it is finalized. Q, MS: The Town has approved this [acquisition of the Bell Station property by the NYS DEC]; what next? KL: DEC prefers the option of one or the other [St. Forest or Wildlife Management Area]. Taxes would be paid [to the Town and schools] with both [as per the Town Board Resolution, Nov. 20, 2014]. Next, pursue negotiations with the owner [NYSEG/Iberdrola]. Land appraised. Price negotiated. Explore funding opportunities from the State. Might look to a land trust [such as Finger Lakes Land Trust; for temporary funding]. Q: Can the State work out a bargain price for the sale? Can they use donations from donors? KL: Good Question! Initial thought is that NO cash donations to DEC allowed, but State could receive a donation of property, or perhaps private funding through the Land Trust, while the State finds the money. Q: Clarify the sale; if Land Trust is owner first, then to State. KL: Again, Finger Lakes Land Trust [might do] initial sale, then pass onto State and be reimbursed. Q: What if the State backed out for whatever reason? AZ answered how financing would go. There has to be an exit strategy for Finger Lakes Land Trust. They do NOT want to own it (don t have personnel (rangers) to patrol, manage it, the way DEC does). Andy himself has worked on deals like this with the DEC since 1986 [so is very familiar with all the ways this works.] Q: Is seller anxious? Have they indicated they will work with the State? [Owner is NYSEG/Iberdrola, a Spanish company that bought NYSEG a few years ago]. AZ: not a direct connection with the seller [at this time]. NYSEG is NOT in a hurry [to sell], but Iberdrola has identified Bell Station as a surplus asset. Q: Further discussion regarding Iberdrola. AZ: Iberdrola on its own would have contacted NYS DEC; they are a Green company [and approve of this kind of use.] Finger Lakes Land Trust initiated contact [with them]. Q: So, it is of mutual interest? AZ Yes. KL: It is just the first step [in the process]. Q: Is it possible to put the farm land into forever farmed category? KL: We wouldn t develop it, but there would not be a forever farmed designation. Don t know if DEC can do that. 3
Q, MS: How long does the Use Management Plan last? KL: DEC updates them, usually every 10 20 years. AZ: Howland Island has been leased [for farming] for 50 years. Q: is there anything to prevent this from going through? KL: Many things need to happen. Now, we have the Town of Lansing Resolution to go ahead. But there are contingent steps: get a price for land, get the money to buy it, takes time. But DEC has what it needs from Lansing Town Board. Q: What about the other 10 acres [for a State Forest designation]? KL: Have looked at adjacent property, for instance the Power Plant land, other lands. Need to find out the actual acreage of the parcel, too [with a land survey don t know the actual acreage at present]. Q: If Finger Lakes Land Trust is involved, is there any influence on whether Bell Station is designated a State Forest or a Wildlife Management Area? AZ: NO. KL: They LOOK very similar to the eye and the way they are used [is similar]. Q: Thought it required legislation? KL: For taxes? Q: Yes. KL: Yes for a Wildlife Management Area. Q, MS: Can trees be cut in the [??] stand? KL: The Use Plan would govern that. AZ: There is already a history of selective tree harvest there. Q: Regarding Tax at $4000/acre assessment would it go down? JF: His gut feeling was that it probably would go down, but the lake front is the wild card. Probably loss in tax value plus loss in tax to County. However, could get more money from it through avenues like Sales Tax. For example, Town of Caroline generated more money that way. For the local residents, it doesn t matter, county or town. Q: Would it be a reduction by one half? JF: No, not that much. Q: What is current valuation based on farm land? JF: We re looking at it [assessing it] NOT as a potential [housing] development. We value things based on current use. Comments, EL: Regarding assessment: Lake front, unique, [??]. He would want an increase in assessment based on this. Question about liability; [??] Uncertainty of it. Q: Is this a done deal within the Town? EL referred this Q to KL. KL gave various scenarios. After actual acquisition, a Unit Management Plan will be done. Q: The extra 10 acres? KL: Would try to buy along with the sale of the ~490 acres of Bell Station land. 4
Q: What if the State deal fell through and private citizens bought it and gave it to the Land Trust or other NON- PROFIT? Wouldn t that mean there would be $0 tax? AZ: Yes, but Finger Lakes Land Trust would not want to own the land due to the Town of Lansing desire for taxes from the land. Q, MS: When was the last time the State bought a piece of land? Does it happen often? KL: Doesn t happen often for entirely new pieces, but they have added a lot of land to existing holdings. Q, MS: What is the timeframe? KL: It depends on the seller and their willingness to move forward. Best case scenario: 1 year for the negotiation, appraisal, so might be looking at late this year, for maybe a sale. If legislation is needed [as it would be to get tax from a Wildlife Management Area], might be 2 years? Ball park: within a year would be the quickest, but it might take up to 4-5 years. Q: Exactly how much tax will be taken away by this. Ruth Hopkins answered with exact figures [also see the document entitled Responses to Concerns provided by Friends of Bell Station Forest for these figures]. Jay Franklin discussed further. Q: Is there anything we supporters can do to help the process? KL: You have done it! Stay tuned and later, participate in the Unit Management Plan. Q: what about liability? KL: As said before, this would be a NY State responsibility. Q: Could we write to Iberdrola and ask them to donate the land to NYS? If that happened, what would happen to the assessment? JF: State looks at land values overall, average values around the State. So, it would not be valued at $0 just because it was donated. Q: What would be the value if given a [housing] development price? JF: His discussion about this tended to be discouraging about this particular parcel being a cash cow for the town, if it was developed for houses. Q: What is lake frontage worth per foot these days? JF: Gave a figure not heard by note taker, but also noted the difficult terrain in this parcel. Q: Does DEC have enough money to take care of this? KL: DEC always considered that they have enough interest to manage this parcel right. AZ: This issue is where local contribution and volunteers can enter. Friends groups, locally donated funds, can help a lot with management of it. Volunteerism helps! [many other local area public land holdings are managed this way already.] Q/comment: In Cayuga County, dairy farms are of high value. KL: yes. Meeting was adjourned shortly after 4 PM when KL had to leave. Thank yous given to all present. Respectfully submitted, Donna Scott 5