CITY OF NOWTHEN PLANNING & ZONING MEETING TUESDAY, FEBRUARY 27, 7:00 PM

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1 CITY OF NOWTHEN PLANNING & ZONING MEETING TUESDAY, FEBRUARY 27, 7:00 PM Present: Dale Ames Harold Jorgenson Kristin Moan Jeff Pilon Jason Alders Kelly Pearo Barry Wagner Others: Planner Liz Stockman Mayor Jeff Pilon Approve/Amend tonight s meeting agenda of February 27, Moan made a motion; Wagner seconded. All in favor; motion carried. Approve/Amend January 23, 2018 Planning & Zoning Meeting Minutes Alders made a motion, Wagner seconded. All in favor; motion carried. 1. FLOOR ITEMS Eric Mahutga, Real Estate Agenda is here on behalf of Eldon Farb who couldn t come. He will save his comments for the Public Hearing. 2. PUBLIC HEARING A ZONING MAP AMENDMENT by Josh Peterson and Eldon Farb for property owned at 5259 Viking Boulevard for revision to the City s Zoning Map to change 40 acres from C-1, Commercial, to I-1, industrial. The amendment is desired to allow for development of a self-storage facility and other unknown business (industrial) uses. Stockman said all they are considering tonight is rezoning from C-1 Commercial to I-1 Industrial. The request is for the eastern 40 acres of the total 60 acre parcel. Future steps would be subdivision which would come later, involving wetlands delineation, and determining lot lines. Lastly would be the site plan review and possible special permitting which would be required for outdoor storage or multiple buildings on a lot, etc. Tonight is just the rezoning of 40 acres. There is a series of conditions that need to be met, outlined on the report. Regarding a rezoning, there can be no conditions attached to the rezoning. If they rezone to I-1, then all future developments must meet the I-1 standard. There is a very conceptual plan for a Mini Storage on the far east end of the property. Commercial district is more for retail, stores, offices, banks, etc. Industrial uses are more manufacturing, warehouses and production type facilities, even though the I-1 can be used to include a portion of the building for office or commercial.

2 Planning & Zoning Meeting February 27, 2018 Page 2 When reviewing or considering for rezoning, there are some criteria to be considered: 1 st If the proposed action is consistent with the Comprehensive Plan. 2 nd Whether it meets compatibility issues with present and future uses in the area. This particular rezoning will not require a comprehensive plan, because the land use plan is already indicating a combination of commercial and light industrial. There is Commercial/Industrial to the north, at the whole intersection. There is somewhat of a buffer with the wetlands to the north, and as far as the eastern buffer, there is a required 100 ft buffer zone there between the Oak Grove border and any industrial development. 3 rd This criteria is related to conformity to performance standards contained in the development. Those would be considered at the time of site plan approval. She doesn t see any problem meeting that criteria at this time. 4 th This criteria is regarding traffic generation. Viking Blvd & Hwy 47 are both highly traveled roads already, so adding the traffic is really not an issue. Lastly, can the proposed use be accommodated by existing public services and utilities? They don t have any public services, so the development there would be required to meet any septic and well requirements under State Statute. At this time, Stockman turned it back to Chairman Ames. Ames asked Eric Mahutga, representing the applicant, Josh Peterson, if he d like to make any statements before opening up to the public hearing. Eric Mahutga drew attention to Exhibit F, and said that there is a concern on the frontage road plan. It is there in case CR 22 is to become a divided highway. They want to make sure the parcels can get direct access off CR 22 for each lot. If the frontage road access is on the east end, will the County give them access? It is almost ¾ of a mile back from the intersection, essentially giving 2 lots no access to CR 22. How is a potential business on the corner of Hwy 47 and CR 22 going to survive with the access being so far from the intersection? How can they guarantee that the County is going to give direct access to these parcels? Stockman said she cannot make any decision for the County. Her viewpoint is that if the applicants come forward with the Subdivision, it is up to the City Council to determine if they want the right-of-way dedicated for a future frontage road. The City would have the option of holding the right of way for future construction or requiring a stub street to be built. The request is related to direct access. If the frontage road is not built, then the only option is direct access. It is up to the City Council how far they take it. The frontage road is part of the Comp Plan. It s just a matter of if they ask for the right-of-way now, which is typically the time they ask. Eric talked with Joe Green to the north, and he had no plan of ever selling while he s alive. It s a matter of having no access onto 47 except for ¾ mile down the

3 Planning & Zoning Meeting February 27, 2018 Page 3 road. Eric is concerned about having a piece of property that they can t sell because of having no access onto the main highways. Stockman said she understands his concern, but that they are protecting themselves in the long run. If and when the subdivision becomes fully developed and CR 22 should become divided, they don t want businesses to fail there because of lack of access. In her opinion, we don t need a frontage road at this time, but they need to plan for it. Unfortunately, as part of the rezoning, they cannot add a condition that says we guarantee you direct access to CR 22. If there is not service road there, the County has to provide access. They cannot say they won t give them any access. They plat part of the road. It will be part of future construction, whether it s subdivision of another lot or whatever. It s up to the Council. Mahutga asked if there is anyway to combine the rezoning and the lot split together. Stockman said No, because we don t have all the documents needed for the lot split proposed lot lines, wetland delineation, etc. We are just considering rezoning. Mahutga asked about park & trail fees, if they would be considered with the lot split as well. Stockman said yes. Ames asked for confirmation from the Clerk that all required postings and mailings had been sent out. LaDoucer confirmed. Ames opened up for Public Comments. TJ Hill, th Ave NW, has a comment regarding the road. He asked what tonnage axle they need. He suggested putting the entrance to the west, with a 5 ton axle limit, or whatever they need to service the buildings. Then they can go to the left with a 10 ton axle limit or whatever they need in the future. He was 13 years on the PZ in Lino Lakes, with similar conditions we have here. Since then he tried to get on the Nowthen PZ, but got overlooked, and has since gotten deeply involved in other things nationally and internationally in his field. He thinks what is being considered tonight looks reasonable, but suggests that they look at the industrial site. Commercial is where we sell things, and industrial is where we make things. When you make things, you have to be very careful with hazard materials getting into the water. When they built his son s house, water flowed from the east to the west. His house is to the west of this proposed rezoning. He is worried about his well and the underground stream. His concern is whatever goes in is carefully monitored. Regarding Burns Auto on 199 th, unfortunately there isn t enough location for snow removal in that location, and he has been sending his snow across 199 th to the north. We need to look a little further on road retention for deeper snows. The other thing is that in developing Lino Lakes, they were required to build roads to the weight limit that their trucks would hold. 199 th Ave is getting a lot of use from the heavy trucks on the north side of the road, and he wished they

4 Planning & Zoning Meeting February 27, 2018 Page 4 would have done something to require him to put a 10 ton axle limit on that road. Once the contract with the City is done, you cannot go back and change it. He still wouldn t mind helping the PZ out. He is still a registered structural engineer, and doesn t plan on quitting until they bury him. He has put his application in. Joel Tjepkes, Quapaw St NW, east of this, right on the border of Oak Grove. He wonders if the plan is locked and loaded. He urges for us to hear him out. The reason why they moved out here is for this kind of stillness. He said he urges the City to take this to heart. He said they moved from Champlin, and love living out here. He said that they got a letter in the mail, and got a little nervous. There are a lot of houses that back up to this property and share their water table. Remember the tag line Still feels like Country. He just wanted to be the voice of opposition, to be one person the Committee remembers. Stockman said that the property is currently zoned commercial/light industrial, and it has been in our land use plan since They are not changing the land use designation. Commercial would allow retail, office, stores, restaurant, karate studio, etc. If they rezone for industrial then they will allow storage, warehousing, manufacturing, etc. Pilon said that it is always good to be educational. This is not locked and loaded, and is the 1 st time it is coming before the Commission for discussion. It is already zoned commercial, but there is a particular interested party that feel that the marketing would be better if it were zoned at industrial. The proposal is to address the zoning. The public hearing is to get the pros and cons from the neighbors around there. He stated that as a Commission, they take into consideration what precedent is set, what it does to other commercial properties. The recommendation that comes from this meeting tonight is sent to the City Council. Neither the PZ or CC are bound by the recommendations. It is part of the process, and is not locked and loaded. The property has been for sale for a while, but that doesn t factor into the City s decision of if it s best for the City. Mr. Tjepkes said there is a reason for the rezoning, bringing potential plans in place that will help bring business to the City. Pilon said that they need to consider the long term ramifications. Mr. Tjepkes said his voice is just saying that they don t want any change out here. Josh Peterson, th Ave. He is one of the applicants. Nowthen doesn t have the density to support the retail at the existing zoning of commercial. There are better uses for that property where it s situated. The property can be better used. As far as the previous comments, he thinks they are semi-disingenuous. The property has been for sale, and the previous speaker is free to buy it and maintain it. All of us would love to keep our area unchanged. He has the same opportunity to

5 Planning & Zoning Meeting February 27, 2018 Page 5 purchase the land and protect his interests, and maintain the City the way he sees fit. Joseph Hanson, th Ave He asked if Josh Peterson lived in the City, and Josh said he has a purchasing contract with Eldon Farb for the land. Farb has been on that property for 60 years. Hanson asked if there is an agricultural zone. Is there a reason that it s now a farm, and then it s an unsold commercial zone, becoming an unsold industrial zone? Stockman said when the Township looked at the land use, and looked at the busy intersections of Hwys 22 & 47, and Hwy 22 & Nowthen Blvd, they designated a couple areas as future business uses. They rezoned that land commercial for future. The existing use is then considered an interim use. The house becomes an interim use because it s there. He just was wondering about the timeline for that. He asked if there has been any type of study of how this rezoning would affect the property values in the surrounding area if a different facility comes up, like the car dealership that is there now. He said there is a lot of concern. Stockman said not in regard to this particular rezoning. He said it is nice to have the open air of Nowthen, and not all of us have the ability to just purchase land to keep the City the way it is. Just curious, and appreciate the information. Planning and Zoning discussion and questions: Wagner asked if there was a recommended distance from the County away from the intersection the access points. Stockman said the frontage road was all the way back to Roessler s driveway, about a half mile back. For an actual street, they wanted it back as far as Roessler s access, but they would allow direct access right now. They would not deny access. Wagner asked if there was a sketch plan of Green s property to the north. Stockman said that there wasn t one from Green, just something that the City may have had very rough layout for the frontage road plan. Green did get special permit approval to replace a home that was there. Pilon clarified that Mr. Green has stated very emphatically that he has no plan to develop while he is alive, and hopes his sons will continue that family tradition. Wagner asked if the frontage road concept tied into 199 th access. Stockman said that it may have even gone further north to Old Viking Blvd eventually. That was what the County was hoping. Ames asked if the east portion is low. Peterson said there is about 2.5 acres of low wetland to the north and east, and he doesn t plan to mitigate it. Exhibit F shows the wetlands.

6 Planning & Zoning Meeting February 27, 2018 Page 6 Stockman said that they will be required to delineate formally the wetlands when they come in for a subdivision, to know exactly where the lines are. Wagner asked Mahutga if he wanted direct access for three parcels. Does that include the two 2.5 acre parcels? Mahutga said no, it would just be for the three 20 acre parcels. Mahutga said the frontage road set back 1,000 ft. was ONLY because of the divided highway, from his discussion with Jane Rose at the County. Rademacher s stations on the intersection of Hwys /22 and Hwy 22/Nowthen, both have direct access. There s no way a station could survive with the entrance that far away from it, if he wanted to bring it to this area. Stockman said it s a different story between driveway accesses versus a street intersection. If the frontage road is not built and doesn t go through, then the County can t make you hook up to it. Depends on what the City requires first. Wagner asked Stockman about subdividing. Should this be tabled to be approved with the subdivision, until he knows if it s going to happen or not? If we rezone it, they may not like the concept that we come back with. Stockman said they may not want to take the plunge if they don t know what the zoning is and what the wetland delineation is, because it s expensive. The layout is very conceptual. Peterson and Stockman worked together to develop it. Peterson said he would be reluctant to spend the money, as Stockman said. He is just interested in developing for a storage facility, trying to take the first step instead of trying to do it all at one time. Peterson said it s hard to plan a road for something when they don t know what will be there for it. They are really answering if they want it to be industrial land. Pilon told the PZ Commission to make sure that they are communicating their thoughts on why they are going to recommend or not recommend this. They are not really saying what goes on there, but just if he can build industrial. Other industrial uses are yet to be determined. They are really answering if they want it to be industrial land. Peterson is asking if it s worth him putting his money forward if it s not going to be industrial land. Moan asked for clarification that the 20 acres on the corner was to remain commercial. Pilon said that was correct, according to the request. Stockman said as it is now, industrial uses are not allowed in the commercial zone. If we rezone it to industrial uses, it would allow both uses in the area. Ames asked if there were 2 lots changing from commercial to industrial. Stockman said no, but that it was only 1 lot, the eastern 40 acres of the Farb property. They are not talking about a subdivision tonight, just the rezoning. The three 20 acres lots are proposed future lots.

7 Planning & Zoning Meeting February 27, 2018 Page 7 Alders asked for clarification that it is all one lot right now, so if we choose to change it, all 60 acres would be changed to industrial from commercial. Stockman said no, we can split zone a property. We can say the eastern 40 acres of Farb s 60 acres will be zoned industrial, and clearly specify that the 20 acres on the corner will remain commercial. Pilon said you can say the northern 30, or the southern 30 will be zoned industrial. With the different layouts, it is a mix and match. Right now, it s one parcel, and they are saying that we want 2/3 s of that parcel to be industrial, and 1/3 to remain commercial. It complicates this because the other applicant is only interested in 1/3 of the property. It would be helpful to have 2/3 s of it zoned industrial. Peterson encouraged the PZ to consider the industrial park in the area now, looking at the utilization and types of businesses that are in here. Maybe realize the demand in Nowthen. He doesn t think there is a density here to support retail. You could have the whole 60 acres zoned retail, but it will take an extremely long time to develop, because there aren t the rooftops to support it. Businesses that are based on retail, need daytime population to support it. He said that a majority of people in Nowthen commute to work somewhere else. Therefore you can t support these commercial structures for businesses to put their capital into. Moan said that even if they are to rezone it to industrial, it can still be used as commercial, which is what it is now. Peterson said that everybody wins in that situation. Stockman said we most likely will end up with the similar uses of facilities as we currently have in the industrial park, because of the lack of sewer and water. You can t get really large, high-production type facilities or manufacturing of certain things without sewer and water. She s just guessing, based on septic and well service we currently have. Mahutga said that he has had this property listed for a year and a half, and he s been pushing the property for sale for a few years. Rademacher was one of the businesses he had talked to, and he said that he wouldn t consider it even 10 years out. That s the reality of this City. He said if we keep the 20 in the corner commercial, we re still planning for the future, but we also have to think of the now. Met Council holds City sewer and water in this area. Joe Hanson asked if a company choses to build there in the future, such as a selfstorage, will there be another hearing? Would residents have a say in that? Stockman said if the request comes in and there isn t anything preventing the use that requires a special permit, they wouldn t be notified. If there is something like a gas station, fast food restaurant, or anything that would affect the environment, they would be getting a public hearing notice.

8 Planning & Zoning Meeting February 27, 2018 Page 8 Hill asked if the access road on the east side is right along the property line. Stockman said no, but that the driveway is undetermined at this time. There has to be 100 ft. buffer along the eastern City boundary. Hill asked if it wouldn t be beneficial to move it as far as possible to the west, alleviating the problem with the closeness of the driveway to the neighboring property. Stockman responded that was to be determined at a later date when we review the site plan. Public Hearing Closed Ames said that there is very little industrial in the City. Stockman said in terms of lots that are for sale already zoned industrial, that is correct. We have some industrial zoned land, but if the landowner is not willing to develop then it s not attainable by a single business user. Moan asked if they take this Commercial and make 40 acres Industrial, would that change the Comp Plan. Would Industrial have to be pulled from somewhere else? Stockman said it doesn t have to be, but it s up to the Council. If the Council so chose to do that and replace it somewhere else, they could. Wagner asked if there were any other areas being discussed to zone as Commercial. Stockman said that the City Council has talked about the expansion of Commercial, some industrial, in the area west of the current commercial by CR 22 and CR 5, but there hasn t been any formal decision on a 2040 land use plan yet. The only area is west of where we are yet on Viking. There was a little discussion about 181 st, and the majority felt the 47/22 intersection still had a lot of vacant land, so they weren t going to add anything to that intersection. Pilon confirmed that. The last City lot just sold, so there is no room for expansion in the current area. Wagner said that as Light Industrial, there is nothing alarming for the community. Those types of uses now are not polluting type businesses. This type of property is not set up for large manufacturing. Alders asked Stockman about Appendix B, the current zoning map shows that the property north of the Farb property is already Industrial, correct? Stockman said yes, and that is enlarged on Exhibit C showing how the proposal looks with the surrounding area Commercial/Industrial. The property to the north of Farb is split zoned 3 ways, Commercial along Hwy 47, Industrial in the middle, and then Residential abutting Oak Grove. Ames said that none of that is for sale at this time. Pilon said that on the northern-most part on the map there is a little jut out there that doesn t go back as deep as the Industrial. That is because it has already been Industrial. There is already an Industrial operation up there. You can see that looking at Exhibit C. You can see the buildings, construction and business already included there.

9 Planning & Zoning Meeting February 27, 2018 Page 9 Pearo asked Mahutga and Peterson if the intended location of the self-storage facility on the east end was so it s not in the middle of the farming land or on a smaller parcel in the dead center of the 60 acres. Peterson said yes, because it makes the existing acreage remaining more flexible. Ultimately he only needs 5 acres. This gives him or some other land owner some other options down the road. Pearo said if they were to move the storage facility down the toward the center, he would have a better access point. Peterson said that he doesn t have the middle portion in the contract. He has the eastern 20 acres under contract. He s just trying to help with the rezoning of the remaining 20 acre parcels. Pilon said there is a statement on page 2 on the Findings and Recommendations. The applicant will only be using about 5-10 acres for the storage facility. He said it would be more accurately a storage facility and other industrial and/or commercial uses. The rest of the property would be sold for other uses. In the concept plan, Exhibit F, there would be multiple other uses for the property. That would have to come before the Commission when it is developed, and decisions would be made at that time. The question tonight is Industrial or Commercial. Wagner asked where the residential property that is behind would get access in the future, going through Oak Grove or coming over to 47. Stockman said we would hook that up over to 47 also, through the Commercial/Industrial somehow. It would definitely hook up with the temporary dead end street in Oak Grove. Then the rezoning would require a Comp Plan review, which they are attempting to get done this year. Pearo said because the land is currently zoned C-1, she doesn t see an issue with granting the 20 acres on the east end rezoning I-1. She doesn t have a hard decision with the middle parcel. Moan agrees with Pearo, and will make a motion. Based on the current Industrial, Commercial, and Residential, turning that middle 20 acres into Industrial isn t a huge surprise, based on what is shown here. That would go up to a road, and wouldn t necessarily touch any other residential area. Moan made a motion to rezone the easterly 40 acres to I-1, Light Industrial. Alders seconded. Ames asked if there was anything we needed to add to the motion. Stockman said there can be no conditions added to this motion. Moan amended her motion to include revision to the findings that reference a storage facility and other industrial and/or commercial uses in this I-1, Light Industrial zoning. Josh Peterson has a contract upon the 20 acres closest to Oak Grove, which will be developed with a storage facility on 5-10 acres and possibly other unknown commercial/industrial uses. All in favor; motion carried. This will go to

10 Planning & Zoning Meeting February 27, 2018 Page 10 the City Council to make a final decision. Stockman thanked all the residents for coming to the Public Hearing. 3. DISCUSSION Consider adoption of an ordinance to regulate small cell wireless networks installed in public rights-of-way, on publicly owned buildings and/or on commercially-zoned property. Stockman suggested moving this item to be last on the Agenda for the meeting, so we could get to the applicants and then the policies Ames wanted to address. 4. APPOINTMENT OF VACANT POSITION ON PLANNING & ZONING COMMISSION REVIEW SUBMITTED APPLICATIONS TO DATE Robert Schiller and Mark Hillukka. There were several interview questions asked: Wagner said that some of the questions were redundant, and he offered an amended list of questions. The questions would be read and both will answer. 1. Describe how your current experience would contribute to being part of the Planning and Zoning Commission: Mark Hillukka is a tool maker and a pays a lot to attention to detail. Lot of similarities in the planning processes and time involved. Robert Schiller said he was on the Planning & Zoning for the City of Ramsey for a few years. He s in the Construction field. 2. What challenges do you anticipate with being on the PZ Commission? Robert Schiller Stupid people Mark Hillukka Balancing the rural and industrial part of the City. 3. Highlight what you know about the and why you re interested in being on the PZ Commission. Mark Hillukka Lived here 22 years. Likes the place. Wants to keep the value. Robert Schiller Trying to keep it the way it is. Rather not see what happened in Ramsey happen in Nowthen. 4. Would you have the time to be at regular meetings and other meetings related to being on the PZ Commission? Robert Schiller yes Mark Hillukka yes 5. Did you review the PZ City Code and Code of Conduct as listed for part of the application process? Mark Hillukka no Robert Schiller no Ames said that the PZ Policies and Code of Conduct are very important. Pearo said that when they applied, they got the Code of Conduct, but not the City Code.

11 Planning & Zoning Meeting February 27, 2018 Page 11 Stockman clarified that it was the Nowthen City PZ Policies, not the City Code. Ames stressed the importance of making it to the meetings. Ames asked Hillukka about being on the Nowthen Park & Rec Committee. He said he was on there for 3 years. Schiller was on the Ramsey PZ for 3 years, and said he was halfway through his 2 nd term and moved to Nowthen, so he had to resign. He has lived here since He was also on the Board of Justice. Ames asked for other questions, and said that the City Council will make the final decision. If it is a majority vote, it doesn t need to be recorded, but if it s not a majority, everything needs to be recorded how each one of the members voted. Pilon asked about Questions 2 & 3, regarding the important personal qualities you believe are necessary. Ames directed the PZ back to Questions 2 & 3: 2. Briefly describe the 3 most important personal qualities you believe are necessary for working on the PZ Commission: Mark Hillukka Likes to work with people, even in disagreements. Helping someone that thinks they re on the losing end. Robert Schiller He thinks his construction background is a big deal. 3. What do you expect to achieve for yourself by being on the PZ Commission? Robert Schiller Nothing for himself. Just for the City. Mark Hillukka Nothing for himself. Just for the City. Ames commented that it is in our Policy that we cannot bad mouth the Council and other members. He invited the candidates to stay for the discussion and review of the Policies. It is important to treat each other with respect. Ames said we needed to take a vote. Both candidates will do a good job, but it will take 4 yes votes for whoever is nominated. Alders made a motion to nominate Robert Schiller to be recommended to the City Council to be considered; Pearo seconded. Unanimous vote; motion carried. Wagner encouraged Hillukka to apply for Road and Bridge committee opening. Ames asked Schiller to stay for the discussion of the PZ Policy. 6. P&Z Policy and Procedures Planning and Zoning Commission Policy on Commission Structure, Meeting Order and General Procedure. There was some discussion about the Policy, but no changes have been made at this time.

12 Planning & Zoning Meeting February 27, 2018 Page 12 Ames pointed out Section 9, to clarify that we cannot have secret ballots. Ames also pointed out Section 20, page 10, to clarify that members need to address the Chairman and get permission before speaking. Pilon clarified that it is important because it is difficult for those listening on the video to distinguish between who is talking, both for the minutes and following the conversation. Pilon pointed out in Section 10, that the Agenda is not in the order given on the Policy. LaDoucer pointed out that it also says that Agendas are subject to change by the City Staff. Pearo asked if the questionnaire could be updated to say policies instead of city code. Ames said he himself had put together the Policies, and got it from the League of MN Cities. It wasn t an official City document. Pilon also commented about the need to have the packets 6 days before the meeting. Getting things on the weekend, sometimes you re busy and then come to the meeting without time for investigation and really isn t fair. PZ is the most critical commission, because of the things being reviewed. If you re denying things, you need to put it in writing why they were denied. If you approve things, you need to understand the consequences and precedence you re setting. You need to come prepared for that. Everyone needs to know the PZ Book of Ordinances and be referring to that when making decisions. Stockman said her goal is to have it out Wednesday afternoon, and took the blame for not getting things done sooner. It isn t the Staff s fault. It is usually her fault if it s late. Stockman asked if everyone liked the paper copy, and the general consensus was that they liked the paper copies as well as the electronic. This policy can always be adjusted, but should be done at the beginning of the year. No changes were recommended. 7. Moved item # 2 to this space - DISCUSSION Consider adoption of an ordinance to regulate small cell wireless networks installed in public rights-of-way, on publicly owned buildings and/or on commercially-zoned property. Stockman said there is a lot of information to look at. There was a change at the Legislative level, but she is not 100% convinced that Nowthen needs this. There are 6 ft. boxes that can be put on poles or in the right of way, like electrical boxes. If you re dealing with smaller lots, more city-like suburbs, those boxes can impede someone s view and be more noticeable. She is not 100% up to speed on all of this, but doesn t feel there is a big rush. Take a month to look it over. She did get an example from another city, but it included a 20 page agreement. It seemed over the top for Nowthen. Ames asked if this was talking about the fiber optic that is coming through. Stockman said no. Fiber Optics can be in the Right of Way. This is for what is called Small Wireless, and works like a booster that works off the big cell towers. Fills in dead zones, or can be used for special events, like the Super

13 Planning & Zoning Meeting February 27, 2018 Page 13 Bowl in Mpls. They are saying that if you don t specify, then they are allowed to go wherever they choose. That s why some of the cities are specifying where they can and cannot go. No permit would be needed, but the City would have to specify what poles they can be put on. It is a complicated thing, and Stockman wants to look at the surrounding areas, not the metro, to see how they have handled it. Ames asked if people were asking for this, or do we just want to have something in place, to be proactive. If we wait for this to come before we have something in place, the way it s set up at the State level, they wouldn t have to come in for a CUP. They could just set something up. Pilon said that according to the League Fact Sheet in the packet, there is a policy in place. New legislation introduced in 2017 will once again take local decisionmakers out of the conversation, and will provide unfettered access to the public Right-of-Way by private telecommunications companies. Telecommunications companies are very aggressive right now, and will prey on those communities that are not prepared. We should investigate and be ahead of it. The 4 bullet points on the Fact Sheet: These for-profit companies would be the only unregulated industry allowed unfettered access to this public asset. Automatic approval provided by this legislation ties the hands of cities who are responsible for managing these public spaces and considering elements of public health, safety, and aesthetics. The legislation limits, and in some cases eliminates, cities cost recovery options for maintaining the public assets these companies are accessing. Pilon said that right now the City gets a lot of money for the Tower sitting over here. Every private home that has a big tower in there is getting thousands of dollars a year for that, but there are also maintenance issues there. If they re on our public poles or buildings, we don t get anything for that. It even can question the right-of-way. Right now if someone wants to put utilities up our streets, there is a Right-of-way permit that we get a fee for that. The legislation would supersede many existing zoning ordinances and comprehensive plans that cities have enacted and planned for over the years. Pilon said it really is something that we should investigate and get ahead of it. The big companies will be well-versed in this, and come in and say, you ve got no plan? Okay. We ve had it with people coming in to build, who find it easy to work with Nowthen. That is good, but we it can also be a problem if they have completely different ideas of what the city should be than we do. If there are booster cells in

14 Planning & Zoning Meeting February 27, 2018 Page 14 this area, it is a real need because of the coverage for this area being not very good or widespread. It makes sense to look into this. The League has provided a number of documents as part of the packet. Ames again asked Stockman if this was about fiber optics. Stockman said it is not, but is only for cell phones. Overall, the consensus was that cell service in our area isn t great, but Stockman said that is true all across the metro area in various places. Wagner said that basically anyone could pop up a pole without a permit at this time, including the City of Ramsey, to boost their signals in Ramsey. Pilon said PZ needs to review the Ordinances and see what we have. Ames asked Stockman to get something together for them to look at for the next Planning and Zoning meeting. Stockman asked what they wanted to see specifically, and Ames said to focus on the rural area cities, similar to us, to see what they have adopted. Pearo clarified that we also look at the surrounding cities so we don t get invaded, basically. Motion to Adjourn Moan made a motion to adjourn; Pearo seconded. All in favor; motion carried. 8:45 PM. Respectfully Submitted, Corrie LaDoucer, City Clerk Chairman Dale Ames