TOWN OF VICTOR ZONING BOARD OF APPEALS June 19,

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1 TOWN OF VICTOR ZONING BOARD OF APPEALS June 19, A regular meeting of the Town of Victor Zoning Board of Appeals was held on June 19, 2017 at 7:00 P.M. at the Victor Town Hall, 85 East Main Street, Victor, New York, with the following members present: PRESENT: Keith Maier, Chairman; Michael Reinhardt; Donna Morley; Mathew Nearpass ABSENT: Scott Harter, Vice-Chairman OTHERS: Al Benedict, Code Enforcement Officer; Dave Condon, Town Board Liaison; Brian Reh; Doug Eldred; Renée Tambe; Todd Markevicz; Debby Trillaud, Secretary The meeting was opened, the Flag was saluted, and the Pledge of Allegiance was recited. APPROVAL OF MINUTES: On a motion by Keith Maier, seconded by Donna Morley, RESOLVED that the minutes of May 15, 2017 be approved as submitted: Keith Maier Scott Harter Michael Reinhardt Donna Morley Mathew Nearpass Approved: 4 Ayes, Aye Absent Aye Aye Aye 0 Nays, PUBLIC HEARING 6868 ALDRIDGE ROAD Stand Alone Quonset Hut Area Variance Appl. No. 12-Z-2017 Applicant is proposing to subdivide the current lot into parcel A acres, and parcel B, acres. Parcel B has a house on it which leaves parcel A, which will continue to be used as a farm, with an accessory structure, the Quonset hut, as the only structure without a principal building. Code Section A (R-2 District regulations) states that permitted uses shall be those uses permitted in the R-1 District; A(3) of the Town of Victor Code states accessory structures that are clearly subordinate to a principal building are a permitted use in residential districts. The Quonset hut is not subordinate to a principal building. The Chairman opened the public hearing and the secretary read the legal notice as it was published in The Daily Messenger on June 11, 2017.

2 TOWN OF VICTOR ZONING BOARD OF APPEALS June 19, Doug Eldred of BME Associates addressed the Board. Mr. Eldred Good evening, with me tonight is Brian Reh who is Sanders Champion LLC, Brian and his family. Brian and his family purchased this property, 71.5 acres, as 6868 Aldridge Road, primarily for the purpose of their own enjoyment. They live adjacent in Colyer Crossing; and also to allow for the farming to continue on the property. The property has a house on it. Their intention is to sell off the house. Obviously it has an impact on the land cost and they don t have a use for the house per se. They wanted to sell off the house and that was their intent when they bought the property. Also on the property is a Quonset hut type structure, like a small barn or half-moon barn if you will. It is used by the farmer who right now leases the back property. Mr. Eldred displayed a property plan. Here is the overall property, the 71.5 acres, plus or minus. There is a house in the front and then there is the Quonset hut barn parcel in the back. Then, the areas back in the field are farmed by the farmer. The farmer uses the Quonset hut for that purpose; for equipment; seed; fertilizer; to put all that stuff in there so it is readily available for him. As I said before, Brian wants to sell off the front, which is the house, and that leaves basically what was an accessory structure on the remaining land. Our request is to have an accessory structure without a principal building on the remaining lands to conform with what Brian and his family s intent is for the property. With that being said I went down through the five criteria and if you want I can do a presentation regarding that. Chairman Maier We ve all got it. Mr. Eldred From an environmental point of view there is no change. It s simply drawing lines on a property. There is no change in the character of the neighborhood. Everything stays the same, if you will. It s just the simple matter of drawing lines on the property and having the Quonset hut on a property without a principal building. It s similar to other locations in the Town where you have a barn and there is no principal house and the farmers come in and use the barn. If you don t want me to go through the justification, I ll take any questions. Mr. Nearpass So today is it two parcels or one? Mr. Eldred One. Mr. Nearpass Where would we grant the variance, because the parcel wouldn t exist, today it s one parcel? Chairman Maier If we approve it, then they go to the Planning Board for subdivision. They can t go to the Planning Board without our approval.

3 TOWN OF VICTOR ZONING BOARD OF APPEALS June 19, Mr. Eldred That s correct. Mr. Benedict The variance would be granted based on the drawing that s been presented. That doesn t become actual until, obviously, the subdivision has been approved. Mr. Eldred If I might mention one issue that is kind of tricky; we did look at, pretty extensively, having the Quonset hut stay on the house parcel and then having an easement back to the farmer, but with Brian consulting with his attorney, it seemed like a pretty difficult situation. You would have a building on a property that is not owned by that person. So you have issues with ownership, maintenance, taxes, and it just didn t come out as a very good option. I just wanted to let you know we did explore that option pretty thoroughly. Attorneys, insurance companies, all which, were not in favor of that option. Mr. Nearpass So today the land is farmed? Mr. Eldred Part of it. Mr. Nearpass Is there any intent to do anything else with the land or just owned, leased and farmed? Mr. Eldred No, Brian is just going to own it and enjoy with his family. There are lots of wooded areas. It s a beautiful piece of property. He has no plans to develop it. Mr. Nearpass Is the Quonset hut within Code in terms of its setback from the parcel adjacent to it. Are there any other variances that are going to be required as a result of? Mr. Eldred No other variances. Al pointed out in his memo that you couldn t put livestock in it because it is not 100 feet from the new property line. Mr. Benedict Yes, it does meet the setbacks for an accessory structure. Mr. Nearpass Is he requesting to put livestock in it? Mr. Benedict No. Mr. Nearpass What are you going to store in the hut? Mr. Eldred Brian can answer that better than me.

4 TOWN OF VICTOR ZONING BOARD OF APPEALS June 19, Mr. Reh The local farmer, Steve Straight, who has farmed it for his whole life basically, lives over on Dryer Road. He keeps his equipment here. He drives it across Town to do his other fields on the south side of Town. He has three or four tractors in there; summer collectables; a combine; a planter; seed; kind of the bare necessities. Mr. Nearpass Does he store fertilizers in there? Mr. Reh Yes. Mr. Nearpass Obviously, access to the road, there is plenty of frontage there. Mr. Eldred There is actually remnants of a driveway over here (pointing to plan). They use that to get back to the Quonset hut. We left a 60 foot strip there just in case for some reason ownership would change. Mr. Reinhardt Being the sceptic that I am, I am not ready to dismiss where the attorney said it doesn t work or the insurance carrier said it didn t work. I feel far more comfortable with something of which you are asking if there was something from an attorney that said, we looked at it, the reason why it doesn t work is.the insurance carrier looked at it and it creates Easements happen all the time. How you are describing it doesn t quite mesh at all with the fact that we can t do it because it is too messy. Unless the Board is all aboard, let s go ahead and do it. Right now what I m sensing is that I think I d like to see some more pieces to the puzzle regarding why it is so complicated for having an easement there, allowing the farmer to gain access, and why it s problematic legally and problematic for insurance. You are an engineer, on my day job I m an attorney, so I ll tell you I don t understand what it is that there is a problem. Explain or fill in the pieces please. Mr. Eldred Obviously it s not impossible to do that, but is it preferable? For all the reasons we ve stated it s not preferable. Mr. Reh It s impractical. As a business owner would I want to work out of someone s backyard? Probably not. I d want to have something separate; this is my side, this is your side. You re a resident, I m a business, so speaking on behalf of the farmer and having a lease, owning a property and leasing it to the farmer, how practical is it to sell a house and say, oh by the way, a condition of the sale is that you are going to have a farmer in your backyard that you have to lease the land to. If he gets hurt on your property, well he has insurance for that and he ll have to prove it each year from a liability standpoint. I see mixing so many moving parts from a business versus a residence. It s really separating the house with new residents that live in and enjoy Victor and the farmer is going to continue to operate a business owned by myself as the land

5 TOWN OF VICTOR ZONING BOARD OF APPEALS June 19, owner; just a clear separation. If we don t do that, just the pure practicality of it gets extremely complicated. Mr. Reinhardt The long range goal for this parcel is to leave that there and farm the land? Mr. Reh Yes, it is. I live on Colyer Crossing. I bought the property adjacent to me which used to belong to Rudy Kumpf, about 43 acres, and then this is adjacent to that, about 70 acres. I grew up in Victor, over here on Victor-Holcomb Road. We re going to have about 130 acres of trails. It s green, I m a huge fan of agriculture, to keep that 20 acres going with someone who has been in the community farming it for generations. The convenience that had been there when the Aldridge family lived there up until the end of last year when Mrs. Aldridge passed away. They had that handshake that Steve could use the barn and it was one big parcel. I don t need a 3,000 square foot home. I want to give that back to the community yet keep the sanctity and the agriculture going forward. A clean break legally, with your approval, is really what we are looking for. Mr. Reinhardt Steve is still going to use that hut. Mr. Reh Steve is done farming if he can t use the Quonset hut. He doesn t have a barn big enough. He s lives over on Dryer and services beans and corn on that side of Town. He does all his maintenance in here to keep his equipment going. Mr. Reinhardt I d like to hear what the rest of the Board has to say. Ms. Morley I don t have any questions. Chairman Maier Al, what is the cost of a curb cut permit? Mr. Benedict I have no idea. Mr. Eldred No cost, I mean the Town doesn t charge a fee for a curb cut permit. You have to get Planning Board approval. Chairman Maier What is the issue with getting a curb cut permit for one of those other access points? Quite honestly the one to the west has the best sight distance. Get a curb cut and access it from there. Mr. Eldred It would be accessed from either this farm trail or a different location. It s not going to be accessed through this property.

6 TOWN OF VICTOR ZONING BOARD OF APPEALS June 19, Chairman Maier That kind of cleans things up. Mr. Eldred I don t think this is without precedence either. I mean there are a lot of places where farmers no longer live but on a particular plot of land they still have a barn there. Chairman Maier I understand, and it s getting harder for farmers. Everybody wants to preserve farm land but they don t realize that they ve got to get the tractors ten or twenty miles Mr. Eldred It is absolutely not viable to do an easement type situation. It s not viable from the sense of the concerns over not having to do that. We meet the criteria, in my opinion, for issuance of the variance so why would we try to do something else? Chairman Maier Maybe I misunderstand it. What you are looking at right now is allowing access off the existing driveway, is that correct? Mr. Eldred No, we are looking for an accessory structure to be on a parcel without a principal structure. Chairman Maier I understand that. In looking at it, the doors open on the south. Mr. Reh They are coming in from the east. There are doors on the north, it s symmetrical. Chairman Maier So you are going to, probably, get a curb cut permit? Mr. Eldred I don t think they need one. We go to the Planning Board and they ll approve the plan. There is an existing driveway here. Ms. Morley A driveway is already there. Chairman Maier I know, but I don t like the sight distance to the west. That s why I was wondering. I didn t know if you had approval to access that parcel from an alternative spot. Mr. Eldred Well we will once we go to the Planning Board. That approval would allow for construction of a curb cut. You do bring up a point where we ll run out there and check sight distance to see if there is a better location. Mr. Eldred showed the frontage available. Chairman Maier I looked at the house. The Planning Board doesn t grant a permit, but you still have to go to the Town or Municipality to get a permit to access that parcel.

7 TOWN OF VICTOR ZONING BOARD OF APPEALS June 19, Mr. Eldred I don t know if there is a permit per se. It s just approval of the Planning Board, Al, then you put it in according to the plan. Mr. Benedict The Highway Superintendent is supposed to issue a permit of some sort to allow you to do work within the right-of-way. Chairman Maier Or the County or the State, depending on who owns the road. Mr. Eldred We ll review it with the Highway Department and get approval in that regard. Mr. Reinhardt Could I ask Board member Condon a question? Councilman Condon Sure. Mr. Reinhardt You re a farmer in some of your other experiences. You ve been in the Town for some time. My question for you, in as far as you are a historian, are there barns or huts, or things that exist on parcels all by themselves without any other residence? The barn, or farm structure independent Mr. Condon Yes, there are. Mr. Reinhardt More than a few? OK. Chairman Maier And we ve approved some. Councilman Condon Exactly for what Doug talked about in terms of somebody buys a chunk of land and they don t want the house. They sell the house and they keep the barn. They want the barn to stay with the parent parcel. Part of my family s farm is on Bortle Road. The barn on the corner of Bortle and Blazey belonged to the house across the street. When that land was acquired the house was divided off and sold. The land was kept separate. Mr. Reinhardt There are no complications of easements or agreements, it s just separate all by itself? Ok. Mr. Nearpass Is it zoned agricultural? Mr. Eldred It s zoned R-2 and it s in the 1 acre overlay district. Mr. Nearpass Wouldn t this also fall into the case if there is a farming activity taking place that generally the bar is a little lower for a variance. Often we used to get the lobbyists for the

8 TOWN OF VICTOR ZONING BOARD OF APPEALS June 19, agricultural industry that would sometimes come in front of us with local farmers to read the same paragraph to us and remind us that. Mr. Benedict If it was designated a county agricultural district. If you want I can go check that, it will take me a few minutes. Mr. Nearpass I m Ok. Mr. Benedict Sorry, I forgot to check that. Chairman Maier What are we growing there by the way? Mr. Eldred Crops. Chairman Maier Well, I didn t see anything. We re past first cut, but I didn t see any first cut. Mr. Reh Corn is traditionally what has gone in there. It wasn t able to get in there this year because of all of the water, but he is going to put wheat in, in the fall. Chairman Maier Is the house being lived in right now? Mr. Reh No. Chairman Maier It looked like it needed some attention. Mr. Reh 1850, if you know anyone interested. Chairman Maier asked the public if there were any concerns for or against the project and there was no one, therefore the public hearing was closed. The resolution was read. RESOLUTION: WHEREAS, an application was received by the Secretary of the Zoning Board of Appeals on June 05, 2017 from Sanders Champion, LLC, 6831 Colyer Crossing, Victor, NY proposing to subdivide the current lot, 6868 Aldridge Road, into two lots which would leave the existing Quonset hut as the only structure on a single lot, whereas, A (R-2 District regulations) states that permitted uses shall be those uses permitted in the R-1 District and A(3) of the Town of Victor Code states accessory structures that are clearly subordinate to a principal building are a permitted use in residential districts; and,

9 TOWN OF VICTOR ZONING BOARD OF APPEALS June 19, WHEREAS, said application was referred by Al Benedict, Code Enforcement Officer of the Town of Victor on the basis of the variance requested to the Town of Victor Code; and, WHEREAS, a Public Hearing was duly called for and was published in "The Daily Messenger" on June 11, 2017 and whereby all property owners within 500 feet of the application were notified by U. S. Mail; and, WHEREAS, this application is classified as a Type II action under the State Environmental Quality Review Act and therefore does not require further action; and, WHEREAS, a Public Hearing was held on June 19, 2017 at which time no one spoke for or against the application; and, WHEREAS, after reviewing the file, the testimony given at the Public Hearing and after due deliberation, the Town of Victor Zoning Board of Appeals made the following findings of fact to allow an accessory structure to stand alone on a lot without a principal building at 6868 Aldridge Road, Victor, NY 14564: 1. An undesirable change would not be produced in the character of the neighborhood or a detriment to nearby properties created by the granting of the area variance. Justification: There will be no changes made. Basically just lot lines will be changing to separate the existing house from the existing Quonset Hut and there will be no changes to the use of the property. 2. The benefit sought by the applicant can be achieved by some method, feasible for the applicant to pursue, other than an area variance. Justification: The applicant indicated that it is really not practical from the standpoint of the new homeowner or the farmer to proceed differently. 3. The requested area variance is not substantial. Justification: There is no additional building that is being constructed and there is no change in the use of either parcel. 4. The proposed variance will not have an adverse effect or impact on the physical or environmental conditions in the neighborhood or district.

10 TOWN OF VICTOR ZONING BOARD OF APPEALS June 19, Justification: Again, nothing is being disturbed or constructed and there will be no change from the current use of the parcels. 5. The alleged difficulty is self-created. This consideration is relevant to the decision of the board, but shall not necessarily preclude the granting of the area variance. On a motion by Keith Maier, seconded by Donna Morley: DECISION: NOW, THEREFORE BE IT RESOLVED that the application of Sanders Champion, LLC, 6831 Colyer Crossing, Victor, NY, requesting to allow a Quonset hut as the only structure on a single lot, whereas, A (R-2 District regulations) states that permitted uses shall be those uses permitted in the R-1 District and A(3) of the Town of Victor Code states accessory structures that are clearly subordinate to a principal building are a permitted use in residential districts BE APPROVED: AND BE IT FURTHER RESOLVED that the following conditions are imposed: 1. There shall be no stabling of livestock in the Quonset Hut accessory structure. This resolution was put to a vote with the following results: Keith Maier Scott Harter Donna Morley Mathew Nearpass Michael Reinhardt Aye Absent Aye Aye Aye Adopted: 4 Ayes, 0 Nays TAMBE STORAGE 7500 County Road 42 Zoning Interpretation of Permitted Use in Light Industrial District 13-Z-2017 Applicant requests an interpretation of whether their intended business use at 7500 County Road 42, indoor and outdoor storage of boats, RV s and vehicles, is compatible with Code A, permitted uses in a Light Industrial zoned District. The Chairman opened the public hearing and the secretary read the legal notice as it was published in The Daily Messenger on June 11, 2017.

11 TOWN OF VICTOR ZONING BOARD OF APPEALS June 19, Chairman Maier Good evening, would you state your name for the record. Mr. Todd Markevicz with APD Engineering addressed the Board. Mr. Markevicz I have Renée Tambe with me this evening specifically to talk about the property at 7500 Main Street Fishers. One thing before I go forward, I d like to clarify the entity that actually owns the property is Tambe Enterprises. We had inadvertently indicated it was Tambe Metal Products on the application. The property in question, again, is at 7500 Main Street Fishers. It s approximately nine acres in size. It fronts on Main Street Fishers as well as Fishers Station Road. The property is entirely within the light industrial district and currently is an existing vacant structure. When I say vacant, there are some offices that are still there but the parking lot is vacant. Tambe has come up with a proposal to utilize the property for self-storage. What they would like to do, there are a couple of aspects of that, the first of which is they would utilize the existing structure and utilize it for temperature controlled storage of vehicles, RV s, boats, and things of that nature. There is an at grade dock here so access would basically be around the back, come in, and they would have interior build-outs for those areas. The second part of the proposal would be to convert the existing parking lot into not just a parking area but it would be parking for boats, RVs, trailers, things of that nature. Nothing structurally would really need to happen there other than some restriping. Future phases would include the erection of some self-storage units in the rear as well as some in the front, adjacent to the front of the building. Of course with all that the property would need to have some asphalt pavement, other site improvements, stormwater; we would have security fencing around the property, at least in the rear; some gates, site lighting, miscellaneous things. That s the proposed use. We had met with the Town two or three weeks ago and had a pre-application meeting and Al attended that meeting and we had a lot of questions and they had a lot of questions. One of the questions that came up was, what is a permitted use in the light industrial zone? There is nothing specifically geared towards self-storage. We couldn t necessarily point to that it was a permitted use and we necessarily couldn t point out that it was a prohibited use. In speaking with Al and everyone it was decided that the best course of action was to come in front of the ZBA and basically request an interpretation whether or not this proposed use is consistent with the other uses and this Board could make a decision on that. Just to give you an idea of where we are at, this is step one. We ve also submitted, as of today, to get on the Planning Board agenda for July 11 and that would be for a change of use for the self-storage and then, depending how this meeting goes and that meeting, we would continue forward with the project. Ms. Morley I don t have any questions at this second, I have to look at a couple of things.

12 TOWN OF VICTOR ZONING BOARD OF APPEALS June 19, Mr. Nearpass Is this an expansion of the existing business or are you changing the business model or the business that is there? Ms. Tambe I think that was where the error in the original application was. Tambe Metal Products is a business that has been in Victor for 35 years. We just closed but we still own the building. The building is there and we want to convert the use of the building to something that fits the area well. Mr. Nearpass I read Al s comments and read the section of the Code. It s obviously a little grey where it doesn t necessarily, specifically, call this out, but it doesn t necessarily, specifically preclude it. Who are the main customers for this? Is it the general public, is it the businesses in the area? Is it somewhere in between? Ms. Tambe I m going to have to answer that. It would be for the general public. It would be just like any type of mini storage. The shop area is about 40,000 square feet and it is just an empty warehouse right now. It has a loading dock in the back. That would be advertised and used for boat, RV, golf cart storage, whatever type of use people might need with some buildout inside to change some wall structures if somebody needed larger spaces. It s not for businesses. Mr. Nearpass It could be for businesses, if a golf course wanted to store golf carts. Ms. Tambe The temperature control is needed for many things I suppose. Mr. Nearpass What other things have you considered doing with this site? You probably had a whole bunch of things and probably came to the conclusion. Ms. Tambe That s a very good question. At first I was going to just look to lease the bulding and that of course is always a possibility, but this just seems like a business that I can still run and keep in Victor. There is really no traffic that changes. If we lease the building to somebody there could be a 150 cars in that parking lot all day long, in and out, whereas the business that we are proposing, there are never more than three or four cars a day coming and going and it s mostly weekends and evenings that people are moving in and out. We figured it would be a very good business to switch to since we closed our other one. Mr. Nearpass I m OK for now I just want to hear what everyone else has to say. Mr. Reinhardt OK, my take on it is, the intent is fine; I understand that piece. What concerns me is when you start saying that the Code doesn t say that you can t do that so therefore we should be able to do it.

13 TOWN OF VICTOR ZONING BOARD OF APPEALS June 19, For example, it doesn t say anything about an adult book center going in there. I think everyone on this Board would say you can t do that. It just doesn t fit at all. So if you look at the beginning, the intent of what that district is. To me it sounds like you are making something, you are doing something industrial. You aren t are doing anything industrial, you are just storing stuff. It s a business plan and it could be a good one but I don t see it fitting in the permitted uses. I don t buy the argument, just because it doesn t say you can t do it there, therefore it means you can do it, or because it isn t listed, if that makes any sense. There s my hurdle right there. Looking at the intent, looking at what the permitted uses are, and really not finding in the permitted uses of what your business plan is as compared to what the permitted uses are. Mr. Nearpass One debate I was having with myself was the exact same thing. Up front it reads like we are going to have this high tech industry, people are going to make stuff, and then I went ahead and read the permitted uses. It listed out agricultural operations, warehousing and distribution, so it listed out things that were starting to sound like they were leaning more toward what you were proposing than not. If I then go to the prohibited uses, OK, you can t have an airport, you can t have a hotel. Actually we had someone, if you recall several months ago, trying to put a more retail type of business, I think they were going to be a health club in a light industrial district. We clearly said that a health club is a little more retail. It doesn t quite fit. I agree with the first part of what Mike said, that the intent was to create a high tech corridor, but as I read through the permitted uses this seemed like it could very well fall more so on the permitted uses side than on the prohibited uses side without being directly called out. Mr. Markevicz Can I make a comment? I certainly understand, Michael, where you are coming from on that. The only thing that I can also say again is, while I understand this is a light industrial zone and this use may not scream light industrial, it s a reuse of an existing vacant lot. It s going to be a less intense use from an environmental stand point and from a traffic stand point. It s reusing a piece of property that right now is just vacant. From that perspective Mr. Reinhardt It becomes more problematic though, when you have an industrial zoned area and the owner is making whatever it is they are making, and they are watching over whatever it is that they are manufacturing. It s far different than when you are, if you will, subbing out pieces and leasing out a bunch of property. I m not phrasing this right. You are leasing out little pieces of your property to individuals and you really don t know what is going on in any one of those storage facilities. Who is going to watch that? Ms. Tambe There will be people watching that. There will be security cameras set up. There will be other operatives within there, the front lobby would be occupied by an office manager during the day doing the rental contracts. It would be a gate that only permitted access of tenants who are renting there.

14 TOWN OF VICTOR ZONING BOARD OF APPEALS June 19, Chairman Maier - The task that we have is to make an interpretation. We have what is here in front of us and the words and then your task is to come in and help us understand how what you are proposing fits with the existing Code. It s not an arbitrary decision to make. This is what we have in the Code and the question I m going to ask you is have you gone through the Code, as it is written? Yes or No? Mr. Markevicz Yes, we have. Chairman Maier OK, can you tell me, based on what we have in front of us, how what you are proposing fits with the intent of the Code? You don t need to do it tonight, but that s the question we have. I think that we all appreciate what you are trying to do. It s not as though we agree or disagree with it. It s a matter of applying what we have in front of us, the law as it is written, to what you are proposing. That s how I look at it. I m not going to say how I feel yet, but I m asking you the questions. I m throwing it back at you. We have this information, you have this information, really the responsibility that you have is to demonstrate to us that what you are proposing fits within the existing Code. You don t need to do it tonight. I understand you are under a timeline, but that s how I perceive this application and the interpretation. The interpretation, one is ours, also yours, you demonstrating the facts that what you are proposing fits within what the Town had intended for this district. Mr. Markevicz If I could speak to that I would just say again, there is not something that fits 100% obviously on the permitted list, but it talks a little bit about office buildings, which isn t necessarily us. We do have some offices, it s part of an office. Warehousing, I mean what is the definition of warehousing, I don t know that it is in your Code. Chairman Maier Let me read something so that I get it in the record. It is the intent of this district to provide areas for research or development of materials, methods, or products and for compatible high technology and light manufacturing uses that are environmentally compatible with the physical and natural environment of the neighborhood. It is the intent of this district to permit industries which are compatible with those industries and businesses located in various industrial neighborhoods. Number 2, permitted uses, it talks about dealing with these specific industries rather than the needs of retail consumers. Mr. Markevicz One question I might ask is again, if you just look at our surrounding properties, I don t feel that we, we are still in the light industrial district but we are primarily surrounded by non-industrial businesses. We ve got hotels, we ve got a restaurant, and they all serve consumers and I think that specifically pointed out that it is not there to serve consumers or provide services. While I don t know that I can point to exactly how this fits and I can maybe

15 TOWN OF VICTOR ZONING BOARD OF APPEALS June 19, come up with a couple different examples, warehousing, whatever, I would also point to the fact that I m not sure that this really has the feel of a light industrial zone to me anymore. Chairman Maier Right, and again we have a very specific objective that we have in terms of making a determination. I m not speaking for the rest of the Board, I m speaking to how I perceive it. Like I said, we appreciate your perspective. I think it might be difficult to find spots in Victor that allow storage facilities without having to request a variance or to do something else. There may be other options available to you. I m just explaining to you how I read this and now I m asking you, again, I may be wrong, I m not speaking for the Board, but it sounds like we re trying to put a square peg in a round hole. I m asking if you can come with something that can support, and you don t need to do it tonight, but if there is something to support what you are attempting to do within this district and the definition of the district. I just wanted to explain the task that we have, as I see it, in terms of the interpretation. Ms. Morley How many people used to work in this building, in the company that you had? Ms. Tambe It varied. We ve had 60 employees, we ve been down to 20 employees, down to 10. Manufacturing was definitely an industry that has taken a hit in the last few years. We lease some of the space right now to a couple of IT companies, so there are some tenants in the building already. I myself and my father have offices in the building already. I think probably the most we have had employee wise since it s been Tambe, since 2004, is probably 65 employees. Ms. Morley As I understood you, you said there would only be four or five cars in and out of there with storage? Ms. Tambe Yes, if you think about when you are moving and utilizing a mini storage. I used to run Lindon Self-Storage in Penfield and if ten cars came on the weekend, that was a really busy day. Once people move their stuff into storage it pretty much sits there until they move again. Ms. Morley I watch the one down in the Village and there are a lot more cars than four or five a day. Ms. Tambe What s the zoning there in the Village? Ms. Morley It s totally different than ours. We can t compare. Mr. Reinhardt Al, there are storage facilities in the Town obviously. Those that exist, what is the zoned district? Mr. Benedict One that I know of along Route 96, it s commercial light industrial.

16 TOWN OF VICTOR ZONING BOARD OF APPEALS June 19, Chairman Maier And then the PDD behind Home Depot. Mr. Benedict The one this group had made a determination on previously was a PDD with a commercial district underlying. Mr. Reinhardt Does it specifically indicate in that section that those types of storage facilities are permitted in that area? Mr. Benedict No, it doesn t mention that anywhere in our Code. Mr. Nearpass I think largely when we ve come across some of the storage areas, the discussions were more concerned with what is stored outside versus inside. Those are some of the debates that I remember. They all swear that nothing is going to be stored outside. I don t remember anything being in the Code about it. Mr. Reinhardt Knowing what Al just said and I ve gone through the Code and not finding the animal, Storage Facility is not defined in the Code so it s hard to say where it s permitted. What is troubling to me, as I said earlier, is that intent of the Code initially that said these are the type of things that go into this light industrial area. I hear what you are saying. It doesn t say you can and it doesn t say you can t. If you look at the things that says you can t, it doesn t fit there either so where is that animal supposed to land? We do have a storage facility in other parts of the Town but it isn t defined there either. I m a bit on the fence with it on where do you put this animal? Where is it permitted? Chairman Maier I think the questions is, is it our feeling that it is permitted in this district. That s the question. You are coming for a determination. If we determine that it is permitted in this district, we have to justify it, because then you want to go to the Planning Board. You want to go to the Planning Board and say the Zoning Board said this is OK. That s where we are right now. Do we have enough information to say this is OK, or do we want to, there are a couple of options. One is see if we can file down that square peg to get in the round hole or I m not going to tell what the routes are, but I m guessing there are other alternatives, perhaps Al, to utilizing. Mr. Benedict You could try for a use variance. Another option would be to petition the Town Board to change the Code so it would allow self-storage as an allowed use in the light industrial district. Chairman Maier How big does a PDD need to be Al? Mr. Benedict A PDD can be most anything.

17 TOWN OF VICTOR ZONING BOARD OF APPEALS June 19, Chairman Maier I m just asking a question. Mr. Benedict That would be another option you could ask the Town Board. Mr. Nearpass If I look at section B5, uses as a similar character to the permitted uses listed in sub-section A, but not specifically listed therein. Upon application to an approval by the Zoning Board of Appeals as a special permit use. Such a use shall be permitted upon finding by the Zoning Board of Appeals that said use is indeed of the same general character of the above permitted uses and is in accord with the stated purpose of the district. I go back to where I started earlier. If I take that and I weigh, where is it more likely to fall, within the permitted uses or in the prohibited uses. I ve been on the fence but I lean toward that it falls in the permitted uses. It might not necessarily align and I totally agree it doesn t align with the first few sentences. I don t know if anyone would agree it s a high tech industry. It s kind of retailish. Then we look at the permitted uses and it covers several things. It even covers not for profits. It covers churches, parish houses, schools, colleges and it is a little more open. It doesn t specifically call it out but when I go to the prohibited uses there are things, again, we are not slaughtering animals here. We re not storing any hazardous materials, I m assuming. Airports, hotels, motels, entertainment, residential and I ve got a circle around retail establishment. That s probably the one grey area. It s a service, it s retail. Although when I think of a retail establishment, unless it is defined somewhere in the Code, retail to me is you are selling a product, it s more like a store at the mall or something like that. I really don t see this as retail. I see it as a service. The reason I asked earlier if you would also be serving the local businesses as well, is I think part of the uses is if you are a service industry of the type that provides service to other industries, rather than to the needs of retail customers. Again, it s kind of quasi. I don t think it 100% falls in the allowed uses, but I think more of it falls in the allowed than the prohibited. Mr. Reinhardt I ve got to take a completely different tack to it. You re not selling anything, you re not making anything, you re leasing space, vacant space for people to use. That doesn t fit in to any of the permitted uses. All those things that I see in the permitted uses are either service, they are doing something for you, working on a vehicle, as far as motor vehicle repair, or they re making something, baked goods, light industrial, metal things, anything that it is that you are making. You are just leasing space, that s what it boils down to. I don t see a category in the permitted uses that comes close to leasing space. Mr. Nearpass What about five, A5? Mr. Reinhardt That to me is one building of one thing. You can make a bunch of different things in the warehouse but they are not leasing space. In a warehouse you may be making

18 TOWN OF VICTOR ZONING BOARD OF APPEALS June 19, something and holding it there for your industry but you are not parceling it out to say ABC Corporation is using this space and XYZ Corporation is storing stuff over here for the whole facility. Mr. Nearpass I read warehousing and distribution facilities, to me that s I m not making the stuff but I m taking another company s widgets and I m distributing Chairman Maier I think these may be arguments for granting a variance but not for an interpretation. The other question that comes up is warehousing is not retail so to speak. Warehousing is for distribution or maintaining supplies for somebody. This I believe is going to be retail. People are going to come in and rent space from you. It could be short term or long term. Ms. Tambe It could be contractors. Chairman Maier I understand, but basically they are going to come and give you a credit card or write you a check or something like that. Then the other question comes, the number five that you read Matt, the specially permitted uses. Special Use permits are a little different and what the Planning Board does. The reason for the rationale for special use permits is to give the Town the ability to monitor certain activities and remove the special use permit if they don t fit the criteria that were outlined in the special use permit. I m with Mike on this. If you can supply more information, and I will give you the options that you have tonight as far as how you go forward. We can discuss it a little bit more. I m kind of with Mike, I m not seeing the evidence that it is a use that supports the intent of the district. That s my feeling so far. I m not saying I m against storage units or anything like that, I m just saying from what I read, this is how I interpret it. Mr. Markevicz If we were to perhaps take the approach of a Special Use Permit. Chairman Maier Special Use Permit, I m not going to speak to it. My guess is a Special Use Permit is a different animal. Special Use permits are sometimes for festivals or special uses where the Town wants control over parking or noise or odor or certain things that may be problematic. That s my understanding of what the intent of special use permits are for. Mr. Reinhardt If I could make a suggestion. This is no doubt a big project. From time to time, as much as it pains people to lean on legal expertise, what do we do here in this situation? It might be the time to do it with the idea to say Mr. Attorney or Mrs. Attorney, we re not getting a great vibe from the Board right now in the interpretation. We told them to hold off a little bit. We could go back to the Town Board and ask them to amend or fix the Code, if you will, to include storage facilities and make it clear, or maybe we should do a special permit, or maybe we

19 TOWN OF VICTOR ZONING BOARD OF APPEALS June 19, should do a use variance. There are a number of different variables I think that you might want to consult an attorney on what your best course of action is here to solve the goal that you are trying to accomplish. Chairman Maier Do you want your options? Ms. Tambe Of course. Mr. Markevicz I guess at this point. Chairman Maier I understand you have a timeline. Mr. Markevicz That s one of the biggest issues we are faced with especially with the storage community. Fall is kind of the time. Chairman Maier People don t store a lot in the winter. Mr. Markevicz They do, but.. Chairman Maier They store during the winter, over the winter? Mr. Markevicz Boats and things like that. Chairman Maier Over the winter, I understand. We can vote. Mr. Markevicz Or table. Chairman Maier We can let you know what our opinion is as a Board and you can decide how you think it might go. You can table it for the next meeting and then go back and see if this is really what you want to do. You may want to talk to the Planning Department, find out if there are other options available to you, or you can withdraw the application. There are three options: vote we make a determination; table it; or withdraw the application. Mr. Markevicz Can we have a minute? Chairman Maier Absolutely, yes. Mr. Markevicz and Ms. Tambe went out to discuss their options privately.

20 TOWN OF VICTOR ZONING BOARD OF APPEALS June 19, Mr. Markevicz At this point we would like to table the application if that is possible. Does that mean that we would automatically be placed on the next agenda? Chairman Maier If that s what you want, yes. Mr. Markevicz At this point, we will reconvene tomorrow and discuss a little bit. Chairman Maier Debby can put you on the agenda, or you can withdraw it. You have 62 days. Mr. Markevicz Does the ZBA only meet once this month? Am I correct in that? Chairman Maier The next meeting is July 17 th, but we have time. I think there was some information that was shared with you tonight that you may want to follow up on, that s up to you. We can t make recommendations. Mr. Nearpass I do have one question. Maybe the answer to it might help in your findings. Have you tried to do other things? Have you tried to sell the building, for example to another manufacturer? Ms. Tambe It s been for sale. Mr. Nearpass That kind of data helps your case. Ms. Tambe It s been approached for lease. It s never been the full building, it s always been for partial building. There have been other options, for sure, but they don t sustain the property. It s not enough of a business. Chairman Maier Again, we appreciate where you are coming from and it would be very easy for all of us if you didn t have to come in here. It was clear. It is just that this is what we have in front of us. Ms. Tambe I guess I m a little confused. If I leased my whole office space to tenants, that s all they would be doing coming in, there would be more traffic and more everything else but they would just be coming in and using space. I know this isn t about the traffic right now, I understand that, but that would be same thing, in my mind, whether it was.. Chairman Maier What we do is a little different than what the Planning Board may do. Again, like I said, you re asking us to read what we have in front of us and weigh the evidence that you submit and what we have in front of us to make a determination. Everything else really doesn t really come into play.

21 TOWN OF VICTOR ZONING BOARD OF APPEALS June 19, Mr. Markevicz Thank you very much. CODE ENFORCEMENT QUESTIONS: Mr. Nearpass Al, speaking of storage facilities, I wanted to ask about Ballantyne that changed hands, there is new ownership. Are they going to be allowed to have the lollipop sign? They took the old lollipop sign and they put their new logo and wrapped it around that. I m assuming, this happened last time, we make them take it down Mr. Benedict I think it s temporary at this point. Mr. Nearpass I mean, are thinking they are just going to put a new sign on the top of the lollipop, or are they working with you to put in a monument sign? Mr. Benedict They proposed replacing it. Mr. Nearpass Bring the whole thing down and put up a monument sign? Mr. Benedict I think there has actually been a variance for that sign. It may have been for the size. Mr. Nearpass I thought we didn t allow lollipops anymore. Mr. Benedict We generally don t, however, you can go to the Planning Board.. Mr. Nearpass Because like Kitty, remember we made her bring the Ford sign down. There used to be that Ford lollipop sign. Mr. Benedict I d have to go back and review what I ve told them. Chairman Maier Al, do you want to tell us what groundbreaking information you came up with regarding entomology? Mr. Benedict Katie provided me some articles on Planning pertaining to livestock, which included Bees. An interesting fact included is that in the City of Chicago you could still have a cow in downtown Chicago if you wanted one. It talked about distances and setbacks for various types of livestock, chickens, etc. The discussion included bees as well. I think Matt kind of hit it on the head that it s not the 100 feet that we ask for but there is some sort of a setback required but what seemed most important with

22 TOWN OF VICTOR ZONING BOARD OF APPEALS June 19, bees was to have a means for them to go up and the out, rather than just coming out of the hives and going to the sides. It could be grove of trees or a fence that blocks them so they have to go up and then out rather than cutting across somebody s yard constantly. I thought I would share with you what I found. Chairman Maier Are there different ways a Town should be looking at bees versus livestock. Mr. Benedict I would say yes. Chairman Maier Is there a sample Code? Mr. Benedict There wasn t. There are several different examples. Chairman Maier Of what you may want to consider. Mr. Benedict Yes, I think a lot of time it was five or ten feet, but what was the most important was having a path for the bee to get up and out away from the property. Chairman Maier So if you had a five foot setback but an eight foot high fence it might be acceptable in terms of the safety of the adjoining property owners. Mr. Benedict Right. Chairman Maier Interesting. The Board discussed what was on the July 17, 2017 meeting and if there would be a quorum of members. On a motion by Keith Maier, seconded by Donna Morley, it was unanimously agreed and RESOLVED, that the meeting was adjourned at 8:10 PM. Debby Trillaud, Secretary